DOMestic Bdsm and Female Domination

You have so perfectly expressed what so many feel. I am not
posting with any help I am afraid. I have no answers to this
conundrum. I only wish to commiserate with you and tell you that
you are not alone.

My relationship eventually ended owing to almost identical
experiences. I do believe it is a real Catch 22 and so difficult
to solve. My ex recently told me of someone she knows in our
community who is permitted to visit a professional domme by his
wife. She offered this information to me I am sure as a
suggestion that with this understanding in place; we might be
able to be together as a couple again.

Who knows? It might work in your situation if you have no issues
with the idea of paying a pro. Coincidentally it might also help
her to appreciate the seriousness of your desires.

One thing I have noticed is that alcohol has an effect. I am not
suggesting that if neither of you drink it is a good idea to
start but if you already enjoy a drink that is the best time to
approach the subject.

I was not intending to offer advice here and it appears I have
begun to do so..

Let me stop now as I really have no answers, and repeat again
that you are not alone. I really hope that someone with more
insight is able to help.

To Pietro Bianchi:

Everything you say clearly indicates that your wife is a true-
blue Vanilla woman, and you can be sure that she'll never become
the Domina you are dreaming of. She just is not interested in
that sort of stuff, and her half-hearted efforts to humor you
have been proving it again and again.

She is actually very tolerant and you should be thankful for
that: many women would have just told you, "Stop this nonsense,
you're just a pervert," or words to that effect.

All your own efforts to convince her are nothing but attempts to
"top from the bottom." I think the most "constructive" advice I
can give you is to stop bothering the poor woman and confine
your submissiveness to the fantasy world.

You say that you have a "quite satisfactory sex life." After ten
years, what more do you want?

Don't you see you make her miserable with demands that she can't
relate to at all? Don't you think you are being more than a bit
selfish?

Just try to see it from her point of view.

Michele

Scur suggested a worthwhile possibility:-

http://u4ds.com/2007/11/an_understanding_wife.shtml#c004636

Since Pietro's wife seems to be quite understanding, a solution
for him could be to visit a Professional, assuming the wife
agrees to it,of course.

The visit might completely turn him off, or on the other hand it
could be exactly what he wanted - and there are any number of
possibilities in-between. But one way or the other it's probably
worth trying. As I said before, there is no way his wife will
ever be able/willing to give him what he wants. If he can't live
with that, then the alternative of visits to a pro with wifey's
approval seems to be his best bet.

Oh, by the way, I doubt that alcohol will have the expected
effect on the wife. True, drink removes inhibitions, but she
doesn't seem to me to be an inhibited person - just a normal,
vanilla wife like millions of others who couldn't care less
about, or wouldn't dream of having a "slave" for a husband.

I was a vanilla wife once myself - so long ago I can hardly
remember how it felt - and I did change, but by and large I
don't think women often change that way. Moreover the way I
changed was so very different - I decided to change for very
specific reasons. I wasn't forced into it by a husband. And what
we have here is a situation where a husband wants to force a
wife into a certain type of relationship. Which usually doesn't
work, and if it does work, it's to the detriment of the wife,
and doesn't really work at all as it should.

Isn't it amazing that we never hear about women trying to impose
a certain type of sexual relationship upon their man? It's
always the other way around. All those posts from would-be sub
males are always about the same thing. I guess men will never
change...

Michele

Michele wrote:

>You say that you have a "quite satisfactory sex life." After
>ten years, what more do you want? Don't you see you make her
>miserable with demands that she can't relate to at all? Don't
>you think you are being more than a bit selfish?

I've thought about what you write, often. But, if I am the way I
am, would it help not to "bother" her?

Am I a bit selfish? Maybe, but what is the alternative? To
forget about the kind of relation I really would like to have,
in order to not annoy her? Do you think we (me AND her) would be
happier then?

I don't have the answer, I just look back and see what happened
with us. When she shows she is not at ease with these
"requests"... I try to forget the whole story, and stop
harassing her.

Then time goes by, we have a typical vanilla way to relate with
each other, sex happens once or twice a week, except for some
quiet times when we don't have sex for a couple of weeks or so.
It is a routine, we do it when there is a "need" for it. There
is of course the pleasure of being together, and share our
intimacy, but I cannot remember any "mind blowing" experience in
those times.

Then I start thinking again, I surf the net, I read, the fantasy
takes off, my private world opens up (I masturbate a lot in
those times), I make comments and probably behave in a way she
has learned to understand. She then responds, and acts more like
a Dom. She herself (it is her self-admission) becomes more
"aroused". Sex becomes much better, both for me and her. I don't
know if it becomes better for her only as a consequence that it
becomes better for me, but it does.

She also acknowledges that the atmosphere is much more exciting
and pleasant. Issues that normally would be "fixed" with harsh
discussions and confrontations are easily sorted out with a sexy
comment and a conversation later on in bed, some teasing and
denial, etc... of course I am not talking about the primary
issues of our lives, yet life is made of daily errands and
routine for the most, and having a sexy and intriguing way to
face them is, at least, useful and more pleasant.

The "problem", I think, is that when all this starts, she also
starts asking herself if this is all right, if we are perverts
or what, if this way to live might be against her strong
catholic beliefs, and so on and so forth.

At the same time I'm usually taking off, sort of expecting an
escalation of her Femdom attitude.

The two things don't match, we move in different directions ...
she starts feeling inadequate, I start being "alone"... and the
crisis starts...

Maybe it is only a way of taking it VERY slowly and gradually.
And this is of course I have to take care of. I don't want to
make her life miserable, I love her. At the same time I don't
want to make my life miserable, it is the only one I've got!

Besides, when one's life is miserable, the couple's life is
miserable... that's a fact.

I strongly believe she should have somebody to discuss these
issues with, and that person must not be me! Possibly a woman,
who is, or was, in her situation, and can help her with all the
questions she comes up with.

Hello,

Pietro Bianchi wrote:

>she also starts asking herself if this is all right, if we are
>perverts or what, if this way to live might be against her
>strong catholic beliefs, and so on and so forth. At the same
>time I'm usually taking off, sort of expecting an escalation of
>her Femdom attitude. The two things don't match, we move in
>different directions

You have defined the problem and one possible solution.

You need to learn to stop "expecting an escalation of her
Femdom attitude" and instead escalate your own supportive
attitude.

Don't frighten her into thinking she may lose her traditional
"husband".

Things are going a little in your direction, then you ruin it by
"expecting an escalation of her Femdom attitude" when a more
softly softly approach might reassure her that it's actually ok
to continue in that direction.

sincerely,
Christine

The Fem Dom Training Software.
Advises on how best to train your husband/lover.
http://www.mschristine.com/program.shtml

I feel your pain, Pietro, but I still believe that SHE would be
happier, or at least less unhappy, if you didn't bother her with
your demands. I completely agree with Christine's response on
the matter.

Moreover, if she is the kind of person who is going to worry
about whether you are "perverts" and whether D/s games are
against her "strong catholic beliefs," then you are in even more
trouble than I imagined.

You are right that she should have somebody (not you) to discuss
these issues, but I have heard of many cases like yours before,
and invariably the wife was reluctant to discuss anything with
anybody, including another woman, to the point that, in most
cases, she even refused to read e-mails from people trying to
help. So I wouldn't be too optimistic about this possibility if
I were you.

Michele

Pietro Bianchi wrote:

>"We love each other and have a quite satisfactory sex life."

He goes on to tell us that about five years into their marriage
he tells his wife he wants to be her submissive.

While he tells us how she responded to this and what he surmises
about her response and what she says to him, but not how she
feels. We don't know if this is because he hasn't told us or if
it is because he has made assumptions that he's correct about
the way in which she's assimilated the information he's given
her.

He tells his wife, who probably went through a lot of emotional
changes on hearing this news, he does not wish to lead the
relationship. This is how he tells her. "I tried to have her
read... I told her... I want her... if I don't press... I
forwarded... I ask... I reintroduced her... I printed out... I
told her I don't want to suggest and lead... I reminded her
in... This lets me down quite a lot... it's a big turn off... I
confronted her... I feel again the need to serve her..."

He's very helpful giving his wife instruction in the form of the
DOMestic list, Lady Misato's work, and even translating the work
for her to make it easier for her to dominate him. Additionally,
Pietro has indicated that his wife must show an interest that
proves to him unequivocally that she wants to do this on her
own. This is in spite of her complete unawareness of D/s prior
to the time he told her five years into their marriage that he
wants to be sub (By the way, one is or is not submissive. It
isn't necessary to wait until one has a partner to "be"
submissive).

If I put myself in his wife's shoes, what I hear Pietro saying,
starting five years ago is:-

"I just realized that something is missing in my life which you
have to provide for me. I'm telling you what it is and I expect
you to convince me that you want to do things like in this
homework I've given you to educate yourself to do the things
other women (I don't even know beyond their written words) do to
their spouses. I also expect you to be regimented in the way you
provide this for me. You can make the rules, but once you give
them to me I expect your complete devotion to enforcing the
rules and immediately punishing me if I fall short of the mark.
Additionally, if I follow your rules, then I get to please you
in a way which is pleasurable to me. You should just lie back
enthusiastically while I please you. I will grade you on your
performance and keep you well informed on your progress all the
way through the process because for me, this is compulsive and I
expect you will take full advantage of that".

Pietro, while I understand your frustration, is there anything
in the above paragraph that would sound more than simply
alarming to a vanilla woman?

Your wife was probably very distressed to hear her perfectly
normal husband suddenly wanted to take the beta role in the
relationship. You made a contract with her before you married
and suddenly all the rules got changed.

Why would you think that would make her feel anything but
threatened? And why would you think continued discussions on
what she should do to accommodate your newfound sense of
subservience would be exciting, much less welcome?

You want your relationship with her to change, but from her
point of view that change is most likely getting more
troublesome by the day.

You admit that she tries, yet you are still dissatisfied. What
would be her reason to continue to try?

You have inadvertently succeeded in undermining your wife's
emotional security with all of your suggestions. Your compulsion
is becoming evident even by your own description. "This lets me
down quite a lot. And I suppose the feels it, and this is not
good. But I can't help." Of course she understands that. In her
mind she very likely feels this is about your sexual compulsion
and not about her at all. No wonder your sex life is dry.

Additionally, I can't believe you "confronted" this poor woman
by letting her know you were expecting her to address your
masturbatory habits while she was facing surgery. You actually
let her know you felt your hard on should be considered during
that? Unbelievable. I'd have thrown you out. Can you not see how
compulsive your actions are?

If I can tell you anything it would be to just stop talking.
Submit. Try doing her housework instead of giving her a book to
read about how she shouldn't do housework if she's a "real"
woman. You want her to "make" you do housework, or "make" you
adhere to rules. Give her some time to see that you're serious,
that she likes it and that she even wants to have rules. Just
keep submitting.

It may take months because now you have to catch up to the start
line but if this is what you want, YOU be responsible for
demonstrating your submission.

Once she gets used to that on a regular basis she may become
more interested in the sorts of things you're talking about. And
for heaven's sake try not attaching sex to it until she's sure
you actually deserve it.

scur wrote:

>"I do believe it is a real Catch 22 and so difficult to
>solve."

I don't believe that's so. There are some women who will never
want to see their spouse as submissive. The very word is a turn
off to men and women alike. Substitute that word for
"accommodating" and the subject is put on a plane which does not
put the lady on the defensive.

The problem is that men reduce the subject of submission to a
sexual activity, or to housework resulting in sex. Adding to
that is often the man's silly idea that all dominant women dress
up in provocative clothing to sexually titillate and enforce
their desires by the use of a whip the way it happens in wankers
stories. Women have a difficult time relating to that. We don't
like lip service. Do what we want. You should know by
observation what we don't like doing and do that for us
purposefully. Do it over a period of time and we'll notice.
Eventually, we'll even assume we can depend on you to provide
that for us and we'll also let you know if you can do it better,
or more often, or add other activities to the list.

Yes, there are many people who feel the way you feel but trust
me, you are simply over thinking the issue.

Michele wrote:

>"Since Pietro's wife seems to be quite understanding, a
>solution for him could be to visit a Professional, assuming
>the wife agrees to it,of course."

Even though I'm not a pro I've had some experience with this
sort of arrangement. The male invariably gets emotionally
attached to the person who fills the emotional need and his
attention is drawn to that person and not his wife.

If the wife wishes to understand the submissive mind set and
utilize it in her relationship then consultation with a pro can
be a valuable thing. She may gain a new awareness and learn how
to develop skill with various instruments normally associated
with this type of activity.

In my opinion, it is better for the wife to consult with the pro
and not the husband. A pro may even allow her to be present
during a session with a client so she is able to see his
demeanor at the door and how that changes once he's in inner
chambers. She will easily observe behavior which she may have
only been told about by her helpful husband and understand how
to trigger it when it suits her.

Again, this is not unlike training a dog. You can hire a dog
trainer to train your dog but the dog works for the
relationship. If you haven't done the training, nor given that
dog his reward and your affection, the results of the training
will deteriorate quickly in the hands of another. In my opinion
it's better for the wife to undertake this if it's something she
thinks she will enjoy. If it isn't, then perhaps she should find
a dog who suits her better.

Regarding alcohol - I dislike letting my submissive use a
substance which will allow him to go into denial after any given
experience.

See also:-
need to be told, sat on, trampled

D/s sessions - how it works for us

misguided submissive husband

Madamplz wrote:

>He goes on to tell us that about five years into their marriage
>he tells his wife he wants to be her submissive -snip-

You are assuming a lot of things... you could ask, and I will be
glad to answer ;-)

I actually have never done or said most of the things you
describe, and what's been done it's not been done the way you
describe it.

I don't even know whether I am a "true submissive". I don't
think it's a case of "true submissives" and all the rest are
fake. Most probably there are all the degrees between the couple
where the wife is sometimes dominant in bed, not all the time,
and nothing more than that, to the 24/7 Mistress/slave
situation. I don't believe in stereotypes, I don't believe in
"you are not a submissive if you don't fit all the criteria for
that", and so on.

At the same time I don't really agree when you wrote:

>By the way, one is or is not submissive. It isn't necessary to
>wait until one has a partner to "be" submissive".

I might feel like being submissive, in some things - not
necessarily everything - to my wife, and not submissive at all
with another woman.

As I said, I don't know exactly what I want. I felt something
inside, and I talked to my wife about that. I strongly want us
to be able to communicate and, if something has to change, to do
it "in tune" whenever possible.

A few years back I felt I had some fantasies about her being the
Dom. I have never told her I needed her to rule our
relationship, set rules and dominate every aspect, every day,
everything.

I felt excited when she took charge in bed, this was the first
thing I noticed. On the other hand she did not like it at all
when I was in charge, she reacted by losing her excitement and
feeling not at ease. We talked about that, and she agreed it was
a good thing if she had more control of that part of our life.

Later on came the issue of daily "discussions".

There are things we do in very different ways. For example, she
is "messy" in the kitchen. When she cooks for the 4 of us a very
simple meal, lets say a pasta and a steak, the kitchen needs at
least 1 hour cleaning. When she "rules" the fridge for a while
(I am often abroad for work, 2-3 weeks at a time) and I come
home and open the fridge, I see a lot of big and small packages,
everywhere, but I don't know what is what. Two pieces of cheese
are in the cheese box, another small one in the door, wrapped
in paper (therefore "invisible"), another one back the veggies,
etc, And this counts for everything.

Practically speaking, if I am going to do the shopping I have to
inspect all the small packages and look for everything before I
can make a list. And if I want to eat something I have to ask
her what we have in the fridge. This and other such like issues
make us discuss on a regular basis: "is it that difficult to do
put all the cheese in one place?", "could you try to limit the
number of dishes, cutlery, pans and glasses you soil making an
everyday dinner?" "could you please choose one place where we
put the toothpaste, EVERY TIME, so that I don't have to check
all the bathroom to find one", etc etc.

There are things from my side too, of course. I forget about
paying taxes, about being paid for work I have done, She hates
that,... etc etc.

She gets irritated, I get irritated, nothing gets better. Our
sex life is of course affected.

I then thought it might be worth trying to fix these things in
the "Misato" way. I think we might find a different approach to
these daily quarrels, we would be less aggressive, she would not
need to get that irritated (I don't actually get irritated with
her when she points out what I did wrong. I get irritated with
me in the first place). Maybe our sex life would benefit.

These were more or less the points of my proposal so far. We
talked about them. She agreed they were reasonable and worth a
try. Sometimes it worked very well, other times... so so.

The "problem" comes later on. When she starts acting (and
enjoying, at least this is what she says), I get extremely
aroused. This makes my expectations take off, and I probably
become nearly sexually "harassing". She perceives the situation
as "too much", and pulls the brake. This is the point when we
start moving in different directions. I expect her more and more
dominant while she is thinking whether the whole thing is good
or bad, etc. And this is the point when everything stops and we
move on to months of vanilla.

I thank Christine for pointing this out, I will try to slow down
and wait, should that situation develop again.

Despite all my writing lately, we are now in the middle of
another try (and I am very happy about that). As stated above,
she is probably feeling better than ever in her role. I am
trying not to top from the bottom. She decided we will talk
about how we feel in January, not before. Yet she has no contact
with anyone about this, and she sometimes asks me about what she
does, how I react and what I think.

How does she feel and what does she want? She basically wants to
have a quiet life, and does not have any particular sex
fantasies.

She thinks sex life, passion, etc, should be something which
comes naturally. She does not "think" about these things, she
feels like thinking about these things makes them sort of
"dirty". Sex should happen because we love each other, and we
should do what we, at the very moment, feel like doing. No
planning, no discussing, no studying. This attitude is (maybe)
changing lately, I'm not yet sure.

When we are not trying this D/s thing, and this is the case most
of the time, she is ok. She does not ask for anything. She is
busy thinking of other things, the house, the job, the kids, and
sex is not a priority. It happens when we both are in the mood.
She likes to be in charge, yet not every time to the same
extent.

She has not talked to me about any special fantasy of hers. She
likes to be looked at, sometimes she makes a striptease in front
of me, she likes me looking and commenting on her body in a sexy
way when we have sex. She likes to be in charge in bed, and she
likes to be in the position to rule some of the household
issues.

She now thinks it is a good idea to "eroticize" our every day
routine, but she does not want us to be concentrated on sex all
the time. She sees this as a "waste of time". At the same time
she understands that when she acts dominant I get aroused, and
she thinks she should direct this extra energy of mine into
doing practical things useful for the both of us and our
household. She also understands I have a stronger sex drive than
her, and she sometime masturbates me without me doing anything
(sexually) to her.

She told me she acted just for my pleasure in the past, but now
she is feeling somewhat different. She realizes we could use
this way to relate between us to make small (and maybe big in
the future) modifications, to better our behaviour (mostly
mine).

Madamplz wrote:

>If I can tell you anything it would be to just stop talking.
>Submit. Try doing her housework instead of giving her a book
>to read about how she shouldn't do housework if she's a "real"
>woman. You want her to "make" you do housework, or "make" you
>adhere to rules. Give her some time to see that you're
>serious, that she likes it and that she even wants to have
>rules. Just keep submitting.

I don't know. I am not sure this would be a possible path to
success. Maybe you are right. I think a couple must act like a
couple. I am not sure it might lead to anywhere useful to
"assume a position" and expect the partner to acknowledge that,
AND be comfortable and like it.

Besides, it would be very difficult to behave like a sub without
feeling my wife as a Dom. It would feel weird, she would feel it
weird as well. And, last but not least, I do not get any real
pleasure by "serving" my wife, in itself. I can think it is a
good thing to help her, but there is not excitement in doing
that IF I don't feel my wife is getting Pleasure with a big "P"
from it.

Pietro, you wrote:

>She also tries to act like a Dom, but only if she notices that
>I really want it. As soon as I cease any mention of D/s...
>everything turns vanilla again.

I sense a very negative undercurrent to your wording throughout
your posting and I'll point out several for you to think about.
Maybe part of the problem is that you have her into a corner
where you say she "tries to act like a Dom". If this is how
you're seeing and describing what happens, then you're acting in
ways that convey this same emotion to her: that you don't take
her seriously. Why would she want to go along when you
implicitly don't respect her?

If you ever want this to happen, I would suggest that you think
with the goal of empowering her in mind. You should be taking
any effort on her part seriously, and then showing her with your
reactions how much you appreciate it.

Also, the way you describe it, I'm guessing that once you two
have your little talks and she takes some initiative that you go
"limp" and you just wait for her to take over and my guess is
that after a short while she finds it all draining of her energy
and emotions. The reaction (or lack of reaction) she gets from
her attempts make her feel like you really don't want what you
say you want.

Pietro, you said:

>I told her I don't want to be the one who "leads" the
>situation. I want her to find her own way, and we will see how
>it works.

Do you see what you're REALLY saying to her here? What I'm
hearing is... you're telling her she has to take the initiative,
and when she does you'll let her know how she's doing and
whether or not she's doing ok. Why not say "Find you own way and
I will happily follow." You're not really able to let her go and
grow on her own, you're telling her to "perform" and you'll be
the judge of her performance, but it's really not up to par..

>But if I don't press she sort of interprets this as if I were
>not interested any longer... on the other hand I cannot keep
>pressing, suggesting, finding stuff to read, etc... only to
>have some play, and forget everything as soon as I stop
>pressing.

How about showing some initiative in the real world and start
acting your part? By that I mean to do the chores she does give
you and show her you want to make things easier for her.

You're making them harder.

The advantages a Domme should feel in having a sub is that the
sub works to make things easier for her... it's another person
to take some initiative and show eagerness to work hard to
please her, taking over duties and chores the Domme would rather
not do.

You, on the other hand, seem to be making her life more
complicated by setting her up for defeat at pleasing you, even
while you try to convince her that you want to serve her.

Talk about mixed messages. Your actions don't back up your
words, and I'm guessing it all seems like a big mind game to
her.

Personally, I don't think it's sincere to say you want someone
to take control, then tell her with words and actions that she
isn't doing it correctly. If you work hard at empowering her and
making her feel like a queen, over time she will learn to build
on her power and enjoy it if you really are sincere.

Let her know during any off time that it's fine with you because
it's all about her, and during those times, you can help bridge
it to the next good time by offering to help more and showing
your sincerity.

You said:

>I asked if I could write, for her, to other Doms. To find
>somebody for her to talk to. She said yes, I did it and got
>quite a few suitable answers, from reasonable and decent
>people. I forwarded these messages to her... but she never
>replied. When I ask, she says she needs to be in the proper
>mood to write about these things to other people... ok, I
>understand that, but 14 months have passed now, and she has not
>done it yet...

Hey, she agreed and allowed you to take that step, and she read
them, but once again, to you that isn't enough because she also
needs to write them back and communicate. GOSH... do you REALLY
think you want to be the sub? You are so demanding! You sure are
being judgmental and pushy, even if you are keeping it to
yourself most of the time.

Try feeling like she can do no wrong and act that way too, and
see if things don't start to change. I'd say work on yourself
and deepen your humility before her if you want to make any
progress.

You said:

>She then started giving me "homework" to do, a couple of times
>a week (like "on 3 days you have to have done this and that").
>Then she wants me to report to her what I have done and how I
>have done it. She then writes some notes and gives me a score.
>I suppose my sexual satisfaction would depend on that score.
>That is fine, I thought... Until tonight

>We talked on the phone (we live 2500km apart temporarily
>because of my job). She forgot to check my homework... I
>reminded her in a very polite way... she tried to apologise,
>saying she was tired... I said ok, no problem, sorry for
>asking, good night.

Do you really not see what you are doing here? This is all about
you and your needs, couched in language that proclaims the
opposite. I'm amazed she's still trying. I think it would do her
some good to print this out and have her read it if you have the
courage. Once she realizes that she needs to find her own vision
and mold and train you into what she really wants, there might
be no going back for you. Are you willing to do that?

You said:

>She called me back 10 min later and asked about my homework.
>But she did it as if she had to do it. I could not feel any
>excitement at all. This lets me down quite a lot. And I suppose
>the feels it, and this is not good. But I can't help. I mean, I
>see she tries. But she is not active at all.

Unfortunately, you are both seeing this through your eyes.
Instead of telling her how you want her to take charge, why not
try asking her what type of service she would enjoy from a real
servant, attendant or slave. Help her if she wants and if she
allows it, by suggesting things once she tells you what kind of
service she would like. Keep telling her "It's all about you"
and mean it. It's up to you to empower her by showing her over
time that you REALLY mean it's all about her. My guess is she
doesn't really believe that at all because you undermine her
confidence.

ASK her at times if there is anything you can do to help her,
and do what she says. We subs ALL have preconceived notions
about what a Mistress acts and talks like, but it's very one
dimensional and no one is going to be that way all the time.
Remember, if you think she's doing something "wrong" then you
aren't in the proper mindset because you're thinking about
yourself really, and how she is or isn't affecting you. Tell her
it's perfectly fine when she isn't in the mood to be dominant
because you understand, and it's all about her wishes, right?
Actually, I take that back... SHOW her with your humility and
service to her that it really IS all about her, REGARDLESS of
how she "acts". That's when she'll be able to take this
seriously.

You said:

>She just does the "minimum" to be able to say that she is
>trying. She does not look like she is enjoying the situation.
>I myself am aware that I am sort of topping from the bottom,
>but at the moment there is no top and no bottom, so I am not
>sure what is what.

And guess what? She doesn't know what is what either because of
all the mixed messages you are bombarding her with. I think if
you are sincere in conveying that this really IS all about her
getting what she wants when she wants, well, who doesn't want
what they want? You certainly aren't doing that at all. It's not
really about her, it's about her performance in your eyes.

If you want a lifestyle situation, you need to accept that your
only "need" should be to serve and to be her slave/attendant.
Period. You won't necessarily get the exact content of what you
want, but you will find "what-you-want" shifting more into "what-
you-get".

That's when you will learn how to get your satisfaction, not
from her giving you what you want and "doing it right" but from
the joy of service and the humility that comes from realizing
your place.

You said:

>What happens, in my understanding, is that after sometime with
>a vanilla atmosphere, I feel the need to be her sub. I then try
>to convey this message to her. She usually understands, and
>does some things to make me happy. After a while she sort of
>backs off,

Nothing happens in a vacuum. If she backs off after a while it
is probably in reaction to whatever you are doing. You should be
empowering her with your attentiveness in response to the things
she does to "make you happy". But honestly, isn't this an
oxymoron for a Domme to only be a "good" and "real" Domme when
she's doing things to "make you happy"? I must say that this
isn't the correct way for a sub to see this situation.

If you really want to serve her, why not find out what she would
like and then do it and build on that. You are in a conundrum
because you are both seeing this through your eyes, and instead
you should be encouraging her personal empowerment, which you
are currently working feverishly to undermine, to help you BOTH
to see things through HER eyes.

You said:

>I then wait and do not press her. I think it is not a proper
>sub behaviour to tell the Dom that she is not behaving
>appropriately.

More than that, it's not proper sub THINKING either! Who are you
to conclude she isn't behaving appropriately!?

You said:

>But for me, if I don't feel that she is in charge, that she
>controls me and our relationship, it's a big turn off.

And just WHO is this all about? You make it so very clear that
it's all about you, but you are in denial and don't see it.
Think about what a turn-off it obviously has been for her when
you go limp and unresponsive because she's not pleasing you.

Can you even acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, trying to
manipulate her into doing what you want her to do is also a big
turnoff to her? From all the feedback I've gotten from women,
it's a real turnoff to have a sub express his undying devotion
to serving her, then retreating because the service isn't what
they fantasized, or because they aren't "doing it right".

More importantly, they are turned off by the not so subtle
attempts by the sub to maneuver the "Domme" into doing what the
sub wants. If you cannot accept true powerlessness, then this
will never work in my opinion. If you really do want this to
work, I still suggest you show this to her and let her know that
it's you who has been undermining her so that you both are on
the same page, assuming you can accept my take on this.

You said:

>She needed an eye operation a couple of months ago. She was
>stressed and had no interest in sex. This is absolutely
>normal. What I don't understand is why she forgot about me
>being her (supposed) sub. Why couldn't she say "I am thinking
>about the operation, you do not have the right to masturbate.
>Remember that I am in charge, no matter if I want sex or not"
>instead of not saying anything for weeks.

>I confronted her about this issue. I told her that it would
>take two minutes of her time to "clarify" the situation, and
>everything would have been different. But feeling her so
>uninterested was very disappointing.

I'll bet she was disappointed at your lack of attention to her
because she wasn't doing the right thing in your eyes as she was
healing. I think you really need a MAJOR paradigm shift in
perception in order to make this work.

You should have used her situation to pamper her and show her
how nice it can be to have an attentive servant, which you could
then have continued after she was healthy. Instead, you
confronted her. She could have come to enjoy it during that
period, but instead you sent her the message that she wasn't
doing it right. No wonder she isn't interested.

Being disappointed is an almost daily ritual for me on some
level, but I would be damned if I would ever convey that to my
Mistress in a negative way. I will tell her in a way that I feel
empowers her, possibly telling her after the fact how difficult
a certain period of time was for me, but how she was worth it,
and add that it's not about me anyway. That is how you can help
empower a woman.

You cannot empower someone via criticism. It cannot be done
through manipulation and that is the route you're using, while
blissfully unaware of that fact. That's why it won't work until
you realize it's not working because of you. You're too caught
up playing the blame game and "poor me".

I'd say your wife just may be dominant and that is why she isn't
complying... if so, wake up that inner Domme with service that
is pure and selfless. You can only really be a slave if you feel
the powerlessness of serving selflessly in ways you really
wouldn't choose, but ways you must serve in anyway.

You said:

>When I am somewhat toned down... she then interprets it as a
>signal that I am not really interested, and she stops all
>together. Our sex life becomes sort of dry for some time. She
>does not seem to feel that there is something which is not at
>its best. Times goes by, I feel again the need to serve her, I
>try again, and the circle starts again.

Sounds like she does enjoy service because when she is getting
that, she is also feeling sexy. When you back off she backs off
sexually. Sometimes it's the way we view and interpret our data
that makes us see things from the angle we see them Wait a
second, did I say sometimes? Sorry, I meant ALL THE TIME.

You are probably programmed internally to sabotage yourself with
your own negative internal "chatter". Instead, you should be
building on your little successes and reinforcing her with how
very much you appreciate her taking charge and how sexy it makes
her to you.

You said:

>I would really appreciate constructive comments. Maybe you
>have seen such situations before and could give me some tricks.
>Am I doing something wrong? Probably yes, but I don't know
>what. Is she really not interested? When we talk, she says she
>is, but not at the "level" I would like.

WOW! I'd say read that over and over and over again until you
"get it".

Here is where at least a big part of your problem lies... she is
willing to see you half way but you have dug your heels in, in
this imaginary (in YOUR head) line in the sand. Here's some of
that negative chatter I referred to earlier... you said she's
interested, "BUT NOT AT THE LEVEL I WOULD LIKE"... my capital
letters but your quote.

Why not just take what you can get and build on that in a
positive, nurturing way. It's not like she's a Mistress in a box
that just pops out and performs... empowerment is an ongoing
process. This is something you need to work at while you work on
learning how to submit properly with true humility.

You said:

>How could she be interested in being my Dom, but only a few
>weeks at a time, 2 or 3 times a year? Is this possible?

I say this with constructive intent: Yes, it is possible, and it
happens because you turn her off when she does try. The problem
lies between your ears and how you have chosen to look at and
interpret her attempts.

So, unlike some others, I don't think you should give up at all.
But I do think the "problem" is indeed with you.

First, your wife says at times that she wants this lifestyle. I
hope I'm not making an assumption or putting words in your
mouth, but I got the impression you wanted to live this as a
lifestyle.

If that is indeed the case, I would suggest that you go to your
wife when you're ready and ask her what you are doing wrong.

Say it, and mean it, that it must be your fault because you
realize you've been saying one thing and doing another.

Tell her you think you have been undermining this
unintentionally and you want to learn how to please her better
as her sub.

Tell her that this is all about her, and that although you have
some expectations, that it is up to her how this will proceed,
and that you're willing to put her first at all times. Show her
this and tell her you want to learn how to do this correctly,
with her in the lead and that you want to learn to give up your
expectations so as to serve her better. Tell her that means that
if she doesn't feel like dominating you, she doesn't have to.

Tell her that because you are submissive to her, that you want
to please her and that you understand that at times, pleasing
her is backing off and allowing her to do whatever she wants to
do, or just serving her with no expectations of her doing
anything in return.

Are you willing to let her read all of this?

She needs to understand that she is always in control in one way
or another. When it's explicit, well it's obvious that she's in
control. When it's moved into the background, she still is in
control because she determines that too.

My wife has shown me that being a slave involves much more than
fetishes. It involves being able to really put another person
before yourself, and if you can do that, you will actually begin
to feel selfish when you get to that part of your cycle where
you deflate because you aren't having your needs met.

It's on you to learn that trick. As soon as you begin to feel
yourself deflating, ask yourself where your focus is. it will be
on you, and then change your focus to her and feel the humility
of being a slave.

I believe you must learn to accept that you will often not have
your needs met, and you will learn, if you really try, how to
get your satisfaction from that fact. That is one of the main
things that define being a sub in my eyes, that my Goddess
always comes first. And the humility I feel from not getting
what I want replaces what I want quite adequately almost all of
the time. Does that make any sense to you at all?

Humility before your superior becomes its own reward when your
focus is truly on her. That is the hurdle that every true sub
must get over to get to the next level. It's finding how to get
your pleasure from pleasing her.

It's NOT getting what you want.

I lived this problem for a very long time until I realized some
things. Like you, I saw it as an endless cycle of having my
submissive "batteries" charged, then slowly I would deflate when
it seemed like she was backing off. That brings up another
typically male stance of blaming. "I want to be her sub, but she
just drains that out of me so it's her fault we aren't doing
this."

Here's how my wife saw things; we would be rolling along well,
when she would begin to feel little "tugs" at her... my
manipulative ways of trying to edge her on in an attempt to get
her to respond in ways I wanted. I felt like I needed to be
"pushed" at times, and in my mind I was testing her, and she
would "fail", just like you are seeing your situation. She was
very intuitively feeling my attempts at manipulating her and she
simply refused to go along.

Remember when I said that the angle we see things from
determines what we actually see? Well, what I had stupidly
looked at as weakness in my wife was really strength. She wasn't
falling for my attempts to manipulate her. In fact, those
attempts turned her off because she didn't see my vows of
obedience and service as real and honorable. My vows weren't
honest if they came with a multitude of expectations that would
determine whether or not I would honor my vows.

Still, at times I would think "this isn't real" if she doesn't
do this or that and "control" me. I always wondered why we would
go through this cycle, and then the most obvious thing hit me.
"We" weren't going through this cycle at all, "I" was!

The cycle would start with me being humble and submissive
towards her with my true focus being only on her. She has always
told me that she expects me to make her life easier, NOT harder,
and having to think about my wants and needs was not what this
was all about. I had always told her that it's all about her,
and in the beginning phase of that cycle, it most surely was.
However, at some point into it, I would become a little
frustrated that my needs weren't being met. All of a sudden, she
wasn't doing things "right" to keep me feeling as submissive as
I wanted to feel.

I had to live through many many cycles before I realized that
they were all a result of a shift in my perception. They weren't
my wife's fault, they were my own fault. I would allow my focus
to shift from her, as in "It's All About You Ma'am" to me, as in
"I'm frustrated because my needs aren't being met"

When the focus was on her, I was humble and submissive, but when
the focus would slowly shift to me and my wants, all of a sudden
she was doing something wrong. See? The cycle was all in my own
head. The result is that whenever this happens now, I catch
myself quickly and reset my focus properly, and she remains the
Goddess who can do no wrong.

Therein I learned to find my pleasure from my ability to give
pleasure to her. I'm not perfect, but I found with that insight,
that whenever I would begin to get frustrated and resentful, I
would quickly remind myself that it's not her that was causing
this, it was me and my inability to stand by my pledge to her,
which was to be her slave 24/7. It's my inability to remain
faithful to my pledge of "It's all about her".

My pledge was to always remain focused on her and her whims and
wishes. So, over time I became adept at finding pleasure from my
ability to keep my emotions as calm as possible via humility and
powerlessness.

I think of her with awe that she really does put herself first
and that means she doesn't cater to my wants, especially when
she sees any hint that I am getting selfish and wanting. The
result is: I get absolutely nothing when I focus on myself, but
when I show attentiveness and an eager desire to serve and
please her; I get some of the most wonderful pleasures from
service.

When I anticipate her wants and make her life easier, she feels
sexy. She doesn't have to tell me, I can see it in the pleasure
she gets from my service and the results it has on her desire
for sex (which is also all about her. Although I have a very
active libido, she has decided to keep me chaste and caged
almost 100% of the time. Yes, it does drive me crazy at times,
but I also find that is only when I lose my focus. When I am
properly focused on her, my chastity is a source of inner peace
and humility)

She has taught me that I am not to feel pride in service,
because pride is not conducive to the deep humility a slave
needs to embrace. I have found that to be true, and a great
source of strength.

A sense of pride and sense of self make it difficult to maintain
an even attitude in the face of having to live a life of
obedience to another. Humility, one of my Mistress' favorite
words, is what a person, who desires to learn to be a slave,
needs to be aware of and embrace at the deepest levels if you
truly wish to live this lifestyle.

Our focus must always remain on our Mistress and her whims and
wishes. It's only when you focus on yourself that your wife
seems unable to give you what you want. When all you care about
is pleasing her, as long as she's happy, then you should be
happy also.

I truly hope this helps you get on and stay on track. Work hard
to please her and empower her. Allow both of you to realize she
hasn't been the obstruction to the lifestyle, you have been.

She deserves an apology and a new fresh start, and a copy of
this to remind her that, by definition, she's not at fault.

Private emails welcome.
herslaveboy_2000@yahoo.com

An understanding Dominant

i stumbled onto this page accidentally; i'm a female submissive
with a male Master, so please excuse me for entering this space;
i do so with respect and no intent to intrude.

i just wanted to add to this that "herslaveboy" above has some
good points, primarily that you are really thinking all about
yourself and probably making your wife feel very judged and
criticized.

a great example is when she was stressed about her surgery and
you wanted to choose that time to tell her she wasn't doing a
good job as a Dom?!? that is just as selfish as some "normal"
man telling his wife that she isn't being a good wife because
she doesn't want sex at that time!

"herslaveboy" is also right that there might be a lot of
potential here if you could stop making her feel so judged. i
definitely think you should take "herslaveboy's" points very
very seriously.

HOWEVER i would also caution that "herslaveboy" talks a lot
about his own personal experience and the exact terms of his
relationship with his Goddess, and you should definitely be
aware that every D/s relationship has its own shape, its own
contours, its own terms. you and your wife both need to explore
your own deepest desires and learn how to create satisfaction
for both of you - not based on something you read in a book or
saw in a movie, but something that you both want and enjoy.
that's a cooperative, loving process, not a whining, begging,
cajoling process.

i actually think it sounds like you might need to work on your
vanilla relationship first. it doesn't sound like you have very
good communication or trust, and it actually sounds like she
really is not very much able to assert her needs and desires
(since you keep telling her what they should be).

communication, trust, articulating needs - those are vanilla-
level skills. you need those skills before you can progress to
d/S. i would recommend that you see a counselor together and
agree to put all d/S talk on hold for one year while you try to
improve your bedrock marriage and develop these basic skills.

i just want to point out one more option, which probably most
women would reject, but i'll just put it out there. i am also
married to a woman - have been in a lesbian relationship for 16
years. we are deeply in love and have a fantastic sex life with
occasional 3ways with men. one of these men brought out the sub
in me and became my Master, and that is also a very intense,
intimate relationship. he is also married and has a great
sex/love life with his wife, and the four of us hang out as
friends and lovers. our wives don't mind the Master/sub
relationship at all because we always prioritize the wives.
neither of us wants a 24/7 D/s situation so this is perfect for
us.

just putting that out there to say, there are lots of different
alternatives to getting what you want and need.